ANDREA DAI

08/25/2019 - Hong Kong has been rocked by more than 10 weeks of protests, violence, and chaos, and it still shows no signs of dying down. Initially, people were opposing the extradition law amendment, which would allow case-by-case extraditions between Hong Kong and Mainland China. They argued that the bill will give China more control over Hong Kong. The peaceful rally finally heated up as Hong Kong authorities were using excessive force to quell demonstrations. The protests have since taken on a wider scope and are demanding more—a full democracy.

 

“It is now or never. It is like an endgame.” Born and raised in Hong Kong during the time when it was still under British rule, Moses Tam thinks that what happens today in Hong Kong is inevitable. He has lived and worked in the U.S for 27 years, expect the time when he was dispatched back to Hong Kong from 1998 to 2006. He saw how his beloved hometown has changed since China resumed sovereignty over Hong Kong. As a businessman, he often travels back to Hong Kong and China, and he understands that there are so many differences between the two. “If it[protest] doesn’t happen now, it will eventually happen when 2047 comes.”

 

Tuong Vu, the professor of the Department of Political Science at the University of Oregon, agreed that it is the long-term consequences of the Chinese government violating the “one country, two systems” principle over time, gradually, one small step after another small step. “What we see happening is a sign that the violations have reached a critical point, causing Hong Kong people to fight back. The jurors are still out whether the principle has been a success or a failure -- the Chinese government may concede to the demands of protesters or may crush the protests.” However, the latter scenario might stand for a very slim chance. The Chinese government might just wait out for the protesters to get exhausted. “No matter what, there is always a fundamental contradiction in two systems that will continue to create tensions.”

 

Here is the Q&A with Tam.

 

Did you go to the protest?

I go back to Hong Kong 3 to 4 times per year for work, and the first time, on June 9, I was there. I still have my picture here, but if I am going to China, I have to delete them. [laugh]

 

How was it?

It was really impressive. I walked like five hours, and there were also a million people walking on the street.

 

Why did you go to the protest?

I just happened to be there, and I was meeting a friend. We went together and chatted and walked the whole way. Of course, it was also because of the extradition law.

 

Could you tell me more about the law?

Okay, so, for example, China says a Hong Kong guy commits a crime in China, and they need that guy to come [to China]. What they need to do is to present the evidence, the so-called evidence, to the Hong Kong court. The Hong Kong court then has no power or right to investigate, because the thing does not happen in Hong Kong. They cannot go through the whole judicial system, they can only judge based on the written [evidence], and they can pass it and send the person to China. But the problem is, in China, it is about the rule of man. You know, just past few days, there was a guy in Hong Kong, who works for the British consulate? Have you heard the story?

 

Yes, Simon Cheng?

Yes. He went to China for a business trip, and on the way back to Hong Kong, they [China] caught him without even notifying his family. He just disappeared. His family went through the process and check, check, check, and eventually, they just gave a reason, you know, this guy committed prostitution, and was kept for 15 days. In fact, he was just texting his girlfriend when he got off the train. How can you charge a person with prostitution when he was crossing the border? It doesn't make any sense. So that is the problem. The legal system in China is so depends [ing] on one person. The rule of man, not the rule of law.

 

But in Hong Kong, it doesn’t work that way, does it?

Exactly. Hong Kong is practicing in a Common Law, basically, it is just like the British Law and American Law. When you are caught by the police, they will bring you to the court. They have to find the evidence to prove that you commit the crime. You know, going to the whole judicial process. Before they reach the final judgment, you are still innocent, which has some flaws of course, because when you do something wrong, and people cannot convict you, then you are free. So we can often hear that some people actually commit crime but still get rid of it. But on the other hand, it also protects those innocent. But in China, if you are being caught, you are guilty, and you have to prove yourself that you are innocent. That is why in China, from time to time, you hear so many people being detained, caught by the police and put into jail for like 3 years, for no reason. Many and many stories like this happened in the past, and unfortunately, even today, after all these years China has become so developed, a lot of legal loopholes are still there. That is the problem. That is the reason why Hong Kong people are so against the Chinese legal system.

 

So does the “one country, two systems” policy really work?

Logically, it is impossible. The 50-year-period, what do they expect? The two are going to merge. Either, the Chinese system changes, to be more international, to align with what Hong Kong is doing, or Hong Kong is going to change, to align with China, which is going to happen. Back in 2005, they were talking about passing Article 23, which was to establish the law that Chinese rule of law can be applied to Hong Kong. They tried to pass it many times but failed.

 

Then why the Hong Kong government brought up again a similar controversial amendment this time? Who initiated this?

I am more inclined to believe that it was Carrie Lam. I think you know she was taking advantage of the case in Taiwan, and she thought, “there is a moral rationale behind,” and she wanted to do this. I think one of her mission is to align Hong Kong with China. With no doubt, as a Chief Executive, anybody at that position has that political mission. If this extradition law is passed, then the back door is opened, and then the front door, Article 23, will be done too. She will achieve the best outcome, which is to incorporate the Hong Kong system into China’s.

 

From what happened in the past few weeks, she apparently messed up. Why doesn't she just withdraw the bill?

Because if she uses the term “withdraw”, it means something is wrong. She made a mistake. But in her mind, she still thinks it is the right thing to do. Now, she called that the bill is dead, but there is no term called death, nor a term called suspension. There is only you put it forward, or you withdraw. She is just waiting for an opportunity to bring it up again.

 

What do you think the Chinese government might do?

It is simple. You know Chinese has military in Hong Kong. They can just send out the troops and take over Hong Kong overnight. One country, one system, it can happen.

 

Why don't they do that?

It is going to be painful. China has been working on the One Belt One Road policy for the past ten years, why? It is trying to build its reputation and its influence around the world. If it really uses the military to suppress Hong Kong, all the efforts will be gone. I think Xi Jing-ping must be very annoyed right now. All these years he kept building the image that one country, two systems will work, but now it all messed up. So not only Hong Kong people, Xi doesn't stand for Carrie Lam either. She is now isolated. You see what happened on July 21, apparently it was the police colluding with the mobs. She couldn't even control the police operation right now.

 

Then who can give the police such power?

Many people said it was Carrie Lam, because she wanted it to be done fast and accurately. But now things are getting so outrageous. Now, there are more and more evidences saying that it is The Liaison Office of the Central People's Government behind all of these. It is a plan, not a coincidence at all.

 

But aren’t the police going too far?

I think the government has to take part of the responsibility. You push these people to the front line, firing tear gas to the innocent citizens. How could a normal person do that? The government wanted to play a waiting game, just like the Occupy Central in 2014. They waited for 70-ish days, and people were tired of it, the government just, boom.

 

Like you said, people may get tired after such a long time protests. How about this time? Is there any different voice within the Hong Kong society?

At first yes, some people of pacifism, they didn't want this. But they have seen police doing so many absurd things. Like the time the police fired the tear gas into the subway station? It was ridiculous. Those who wanted to stand for the government were disappointed. So that is why I said, it is the government should be blamed. They didn't foresee this coming, and they create this problem by themselves. Mistakes by mistakes, it is just like a snowball effect.

 

So what do Hong Kong people want eventually? Why do they stand out?

I think Hong Kong had no unity before. It was very capitalism society, everyone just wanted to make as much money as possible. So this case is really interesting. Lots of people stand out. And they are in fact, educated by the young people. Why these young people have such a strong identity as Hong Kong people? And why do they hate China so badly?

 

Right. Aren’t they born after Hong Kong was taken over by China?

Exactly. But I think it is understandable. Because Hong Kong is a place of freedom, relatively, and people have seen so many horrible things happened in China in the past 20 years. Also like the soaring housing prices, which are mainly being brought up by Chinese investment, and all the resources in Hong Kong, such as medical and education, are all being taken by Chinese people. A lot of Hong Kong people are desperate. They feel this is not their place anymore, and they can’t live here. So they are like, “I have to fight for my future. I want to make my own place.” They can’t face the reality, and they want to achieve an idealistic dream.

 

However, the 50-year-period won’t change at all. Do they really think they could bring democracy to Hong Kong?

At least we fought. We tried. Under the so-called “one country, two systems”, Hong Kong people should have the right to operate in its own independent system. But now, only the 1,000 members I[China] select can vote. Hong Kong people just feel that is a lie. Things we should be allowed to do could be all in vain, what about after 2047? So they are now fighting for the rights they are given based on the Common Law. Even if it is only for 50 years, it is long enough. What will happen then? You know, Carrie Lam, Xi Jing-ping might already be dead at that time. Will China change? How shall we do? We will see.

 

So for you, I mean, you have lived in the U.S. for years. What is your identity?

I have always recognized myself as a Hong Kongese. It never changes. You know, from the very first day I come to Eugene, I have always been thinking, when can I go back? Now my daughters all grow up, I am seriously thinking about going back to Hong Kong, once I can afford the apartment there. [laugh] My heart is still there, so why do I know so many? Because I keep following every day. It is hard for me to identify myself as a Chinese. If you ask anyone from Hong Kong, I think over 70 percent will say they are Hong Kong people, not Chinese. But the problem is, we are part of China NOW. But I believe, if Xi wants to get things down before the China National Day on October 1, he needs to compromise, at least to some degree.